A lot of us are pro China and Russia. Not all of us, some of us aren’t tripping balls. I’m just kinda here, and didn’t realize I was defederated with some other instances…
Probably gonna make a new account in that case, if I ever remember to actually do so
That’s what I’m not a fan of. It feels softer than it is, the information bubble. The ml admins are too good at removing dissent and it translates to users unaware of the situation. Were there informed consent, I’d feel less aggrieved.
The fact they don’t list dissent or criticism of China/Russia as being bannable in the rules is one of the bigger problems. They will just ban you for Rule 1 or 2, neither of which have anything to do with that and leaving banned users scratching their heads wondering what they did wrong. Meanwhile to the other .mls, it just looks like the devs banned someone for a “legitimate” reason because the devs will leave a comment painting the banned user’s comment in that light.
Example: User “BillyBobJones” expresses a dislike of China’s genocide of the Uyghur Muslims. Dessalines or Davel will quickly ban BillyBobJones under Rule 1 or 2 for, say, “racism”. Then they will leave a comment under the deleted comment accusing BillyBob of saying something racist and saying that’s why BillyBob was banned. Unless an .ml user bothers to check the modlogs, they won’t know what BillyBob actually said and will praise Dessalines/Davel for removing a racist. Dissenter removed, echo chamber reinforced.
The people, both uhigur and han, are warm and friendly towards foreigners. You’ll run into a range of experiences and opinions. Some being more willing to discuss them 1on1 after a bottle of baijiu. Xinjiang has excellent wines and distilled liquors that pair well with the heavy, spicy food.
The coffee tends to be kinda bad.
You’ll hear mandarin, uhigur, and what I thought was Russian. Some of the older uhigurs can’t read chinese characters.
The food is excellent, they use a lot more mutton, then beef, pork is least common, but sometimes you see it.
It gets quite a bit of snow.
There’s more cops and old folk hired as security(i forget the word for them) than elsewhere in China.
Supporting the current regimes in Russia and China comes across as decidedly anti Russia and China. There is nothing socialist about modern day Russia but .ml still lick their boot.
Yes, many tankies like me are supporters of the state that saved Europe from fascism including tens of millions of people from extermination. Also supportive of the lowest inequality rates in the history of the region, rapid industrialization, guaranteed employment, universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, guaranteed housing, universal retirement pensions, highest rates of unionization, and doubling-tripling of life expectancy, without engaging in colonialism or unequal exchange and supporting liberation movements all over Latin America, Africa and Asia.
I have criticism for social policy in the USSR, but let’s not forget that in 1917 the country was composed of 85% peasants who worked the land almost enslaved to the landowners for miserable wages, and up to 1905 the majority of peasants praised the tsar’s godgiven power to rule over them.
Let’s also not forget what we compare it with. “Liberal paradises” such as France were murdering more than a million Algerians in the Algerian war of independence in the 1960s.
Sorry, I honestly can’t tell much about femboys in the USSR.
The Soviet poet Mayakovksy had big puppyboy energy though, signing many poems and letters with drawings of a dog and writing things like trips on his paws
The original term “tankie” refers to the usage of tanks way earlier, by the USSR in the Czechoslovak revolution attempt.
China did not use tanks against civilians in the Tiananmen protests, the famous picture of “tank man” is a screenshot of a video in which the civilian stops the tank, has a ten minute conversation with the tank driver, and then goes away by himself.
Yeah, you grew up in an ex Warsaw Pact country, not in a Warsaw Pact country. Keep blaming the problems of capitalism on the system that you had 35 years ago. If it weren’t for the USSR, your ancestors would have likely been exterminated by Nazis.
I can argue with you in at all because you’re alive thanks to the USSR. Almost all Warsaw pact peoples were liable to Nazi extermination, if you belong to the few who were not, it’s not a good argument either. “Nazis wouldn’t have exterminated me!”
nope, I questioned whether you might have consulted a chatbot.
Whataboutism
Says the person who
literally responded with “WHAT ABOUT [List of positive things done by sowjet union]???” on my first comment 😅
asks “WHAT ABOUT Europe???” 1 line after accusing me of whataboutism 😅
I’m sure, we could fill multiple pages with circular responses like “But your state bad because XY”, followed by “But your state worse because of YZ”, but I don’t have time for this. Maybe, you find someone else…
Huh. I’m trying to understand what you mean. Your interpretation is that .ml is pro-China and pro-Russia. And, as you can see, my account is .ml. I’m not sure I would identify as pro-China or pro-Russia. What does it mean to you to be pro-China and pro-Russia?
To be fair, I did sign up a long time ago. However, I do have reasons to stay in .ml. Here’s a response I posted elsewhere: https://lemmy.ml/post/40683138/22907808
To understand what you mean, is that seal winking? If so, are you saying that maybe I’m not being forthcoming or honest? I hope that you and I and everyone here can agree that we’re trying to understand what we’re all saying and where we all stand. I’m not being sarcastic or trying to hide anything.
Well, if I look at my posts and ask myself whether I’m sealioning, I do see that I ask many questions to others. However, I also see that I talk about my stances and my beliefs. That is, as far as I can tell, not sealioning. Sealioning seems to require work from others while not doing the work of communicating.
Gotcha. So you’re saying that explaining my stance is compatible with sealioning.
Here’s the thing. I would love to have civil, honest, constructive conversations. Seeing that this can be perceived as malicious is very frustrating to me. I could be accused of sealioning right now. It seems like a trap: damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
What am I supposed to do if I want to have a civil, honest, and constructive conversations?
I don’t doubt there are people who sealion. I just don’t see myself as having a malicious intent. I’m being open about my stances and I want to see what people’s stances are. But, again, damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
I suppose there’s nothing left for me to do other than tell you that, if you believe I’m acting in good faith, I’d love to talk to you. However, if you don’t think I’m acting in good faith, then there’s nothing we can do to move forward.
Regardless of what you think and what you choose, I genuinely hope you have a good one. In the grand scheme of things, I hope we can all live good lives.
It sounds as if it’s clear that .ml admins are pro-Russia and pro-China. I understand you’re also asking if I’m making content-flow choices.
I think it’s worthwhile to interrogate where I stand in relation to .ml and my identity.
The way I see it, .ml does have posts that mourn aspects of countries like the USA and posts that recognize achievements of China. I’m not sure I’ve seen posts praising Russia, like at all, ever (if anything, I’ve seen posts critical of how Russia is a hyper-militaristic society).
I take this to mean that .ml is not indoctrinated in the way that many of my friends are. Some of my friends think that capitalism is perfectly ethical, and they sweep under the rug awful things about capitalism. They sweep under the rug how capitalism creates systemic inequality, how capitalism optimizes for accumulation instead of human flourishing, how capitalism is short-sighted in its investment strategies, how capitalism cannot create infinite growth in a contained system like planet Earth. I see these kinds of analyses in .ml. And I do not see them as much in other places.
I want to make it clear that I’m not saying those analyses don’t exist elsewhere. However, I see .ml engaging with them much more. I could be wrong, and I’d be very interested if you can link to other communities that engage with things like, for example, classical economics instead of neoclassical or post-Keynesian economics. Anyway…
This might lead you to believe that I have a specific political project in mind that I’m supporting. And yeah, I believe in humanism, in human development, and in empathy-based ethics. However, I do not believe in static visions of the future. I do not think that there’s a Single Best Way Of Solving World Problems. I believe the world is a complex system and we need multiple simultaneous experiments at all levels to get more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
And what is it that I want? I want more acceptance of diversity and less hatred. I want more people working in good working conditions and less shitty workplaces. I want more equality of opportunities and less hoarding of privilege by the wealthy. I want more people out of poverty and less people stuck in the cycle of poverty. I want more investments that care about the long-term benefit of everyone and less investments that care about the short-term benefit of elites. I want more people who can choose what to do with their lives and less people stuck with what they’ve got in front of them.
So am I anti-USA and pro-China?
If you tell me the story that the USA is lagging in healthcare compared to its rich-country counterparts, then I want less of that. Am I anti-USA because of that?
If you tell me the story that the USA managed to be an innovation power-house for a century because of its entrepreneurial state, then I want more of that. Am I pro-USA because of that?
If you tell me the story that China has a demographic problem because of its gender imbalance, then I want less of that. Am I anti-China because of that?
If you tell me the story that China is investing immensely in the development of green energy, then I want more of that. Am I pro-China because of that?
What I’m trying to say is that we have to look at reality with openness. I believe we should not stick to a simplistic story. I believe simplistic stories blind us to complexity and nuance. I believe we should not stick to easy stories such as “pro-USA” or “pro-China”. I believe we need to be able to break complex systems down and find what we want more of and what we want less of. I believe we then need to be able to accept that in complex systems we cannot know the end-state. I believe, instead, we need to try things out at multiple levels and see if we’re getting more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
So yeah, I see myself as someone who sees in .ml the kinds of analyses that I don’t see elsewhere. Of course, I’m open to alternatives and am curious about where you stand and what you believe.
Lemmy.ml is the instance maintained by the creators of lemmy is believe. The have political leanings not shared by the majority of the fediverse. Far left by many estimates.
If you see something to left to believe, probably comes from there.
i pointed it out in one of community still harboring them, that is not part of that instance, what a surprise instant downvote, and comment removed (especially criticizing CHINas lack of innovaiton or population problems) and im asian myself. funny thing on a post on reddit recently about "voters, left and right base) someone mentioned how tankies are pretty much non-voters themselves, they just like to complain but they dont vote for thier preferred members thats why there is no left wing in america. i call these people inactivist.
Authright is when universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, guaranteed employment, housing and retirement pensions, and liberating Europe from Fascism and saving tens of millions from Nazi extermination.
What on Earth are you talking about? How are the 1955-1990 policies of guaranteed housing in any way related to Ukraine or displacement of anyone?
I see you’re very concerned with the well-being of the Ukrainian people though, which is commendable. You surely criticize the dissolution of the USSR then, which led to Ukraine becoming the poorest country in Europe, the premature deaths of millions of Ukrainians from unemployment, lack of healthcare, drug abuse, malnutrition, suicide and mental health crises in the period between 1990 and 2022, in which Ukraine lost more than 10 million of its people? (A bit less than 20% of the total population).
especially not sea lions who “liberate europe from fascism” by *checks notes* allying with hitler and handing western poland to nazi germany on a silver platter.
You surely criticize the dissolution of the USSR then
i criticize the enemy to ukraine’s east that has sought to destabilize it for years leading up to an unprovoked war of aggression and annexation
lemme.ml is a politically “left” tankie instance, the opposite of a conservative one. and you can surmise any criticism against that form of thinking will get you astroturfed or banned.
havent used lemmy in a while and dont get it, could someone explain the joke?
They’re pro China and Russia
faux far left.
You’re only considering the x axis. They are far left and fascist. You can be far left and liberal.
No you can’t
A lot of us are pro China and Russia. Not all of us, some of us aren’t tripping balls. I’m just kinda here, and didn’t realize I was defederated with some other instances…
Probably gonna make a new account in that case, if I ever remember to actually do so
That’s what I’m not a fan of. It feels softer than it is, the information bubble. The ml admins are too good at removing dissent and it translates to users unaware of the situation. Were there informed consent, I’d feel less aggrieved.
The fact they don’t list dissent or criticism of China/Russia as being bannable in the rules is one of the bigger problems. They will just ban you for Rule 1 or 2, neither of which have anything to do with that and leaving banned users scratching their heads wondering what they did wrong. Meanwhile to the other .mls, it just looks like the devs banned someone for a “legitimate” reason because the devs will leave a comment painting the banned user’s comment in that light.
Example: User “BillyBobJones” expresses a dislike of China’s genocide of the Uyghur Muslims. Dessalines or Davel will quickly ban BillyBobJones under Rule 1 or 2 for, say, “racism”. Then they will leave a comment under the deleted comment accusing BillyBob of saying something racist and saying that’s why BillyBob was banned. Unless an .ml user bothers to check the modlogs, they won’t know what BillyBob actually said and will praise Dessalines/Davel for removing a racist. Dissenter removed, echo chamber reinforced.
I literally just left Xinjiang again, currently in Kazakhstan.
If you want to criticize China, talk about existing policy, not silly shit the west made up.
Maybe even come over and make some friends and ask them about their experiences.
Also p sure its lemmy.ml policy to include the post you were banned for, unlike .world who will straight up lie.
ML mods have been caught ignoring their own policy and do straight up lie as well. Both of the teams are kinda crappy.
It wouldn’t surprise me. Imo its a flaw that lemmy doesn’t require mods sign their actions.
@Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
Как оно в Синцзяне? Читал только на Медузе о нём, и там, конечно, описывается настоящий концлагерь.
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca
I can’t read or speak russian.
The people, both uhigur and han, are warm and friendly towards foreigners. You’ll run into a range of experiences and opinions. Some being more willing to discuss them 1on1 after a bottle of baijiu. Xinjiang has excellent wines and distilled liquors that pair well with the heavy, spicy food.
The coffee tends to be kinda bad.
You’ll hear mandarin, uhigur, and what I thought was Russian. Some of the older uhigurs can’t read chinese characters.
The food is excellent, they use a lot more mutton, then beef, pork is least common, but sometimes you see it.
It gets quite a bit of snow.
There’s more cops and old folk hired as security(i forget the word for them) than elsewhere in China.
spoiler
@Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz
Are you kazakh?
Yeah. Abandon ship asap. That shithole is not something you’d want to be associated with unless you love sucking authoritarian boot-shaped cock.
Supporting the current regimes in Russia and China comes across as decidedly anti Russia and China. There is nothing socialist about modern day Russia but .ml still lick their boot.
The ones I talked to were more like fans of the Sowjet union.
Yes, many tankies like me are supporters of the state that saved Europe from fascism including tens of millions of people from extermination. Also supportive of the lowest inequality rates in the history of the region, rapid industrialization, guaranteed employment, universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, guaranteed housing, universal retirement pensions, highest rates of unionization, and doubling-tripling of life expectancy, without engaging in colonialism or unequal exchange and supporting liberation movements all over Latin America, Africa and Asia.
idk man, not enough femboys in the ussr, your point is invalid.
I have criticism for social policy in the USSR, but let’s not forget that in 1917 the country was composed of 85% peasants who worked the land almost enslaved to the landowners for miserable wages, and up to 1905 the majority of peasants praised the tsar’s godgiven power to rule over them.
Let’s also not forget what we compare it with. “Liberal paradises” such as France were murdering more than a million Algerians in the Algerian war of independence in the 1960s.
im talking about femboys here
Sorry, I honestly can’t tell much about femboys in the USSR.
The Soviet poet Mayakovksy had big puppyboy energy though, signing many poems and letters with drawings of a dog and writing things like trips on his paws
that’s more to the furry side tbh
Isn’t tankie describing when China used tanks against their own people? I thought it referenced Tiananmen Square.
The original term “tankie” refers to the usage of tanks way earlier, by the USSR in the Czechoslovak revolution attempt.
China did not use tanks against civilians in the Tiananmen protests, the famous picture of “tank man” is a screenshot of a video in which the civilian stops the tank, has a ten minute conversation with the tank driver, and then goes away by himself.
So why is June 4th banned and you can’t talk about Tiananmen Square in China then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DbijSAH1-Q
Can you show me the particular moment in the 2h long video in which the tanks are firing on / rolling over protestors?
It’s towards the end.
As someone who grew up in an ex Warsaw Pact country, reading your characterization of the USSR is hilarious to me.
Imagine a Native American reading comments that are praising the US for how well they’ve done by them by giving them casinos.
Yeah, you grew up in an ex Warsaw Pact country, not in a Warsaw Pact country. Keep blaming the problems of capitalism on the system that you had 35 years ago. If it weren’t for the USSR, your ancestors would have likely been exterminated by Nazis.
Make assumptions about me and my ancestry at our first interaction, I’m sure you will eventually convince someone you’re arguing in good faith.
I can argue with you in at all because you’re alive thanks to the USSR. Almost all Warsaw pact peoples were liable to Nazi extermination, if you belong to the few who were not, it’s not a good argument either. “Nazis wouldn’t have exterminated me!”
Well I hate to disappoint you, but for me the weight of your narrative pales in comparison to the first hand accounts of my actual ancestors.
Is this a chatgpt response for “List lots of advantages of positive things about the sowjet union and ignore the negative stuff”?
It was so successful that 4 districts of it decided to leave it in 1990 and 11 more in 1991.
Whataboutism and accusing me of being a chatbot, thats a 2 for 1!
If Euroep is so good, why did the entirety of Africa, Asia and Latin America have literal independence wars to leave it?
nope, I questioned whether you might have consulted a chatbot.
Says the person who
literally responded with “WHAT ABOUT [List of positive things done by sowjet union]???” on my first comment 😅
asks “WHAT ABOUT Europe???” 1 line after accusing me of whataboutism 😅
I’m sure, we could fill multiple pages with circular responses like “But your state bad because XY”, followed by “But your state worse because of YZ”, but I don’t have time for this. Maybe, you find someone else…
Don’t forget North Korea
Isn’t that lemmygrad.ml, not lemmy.ml?
It’s unfortunately both from some of their most prominent users.
Huh. I’m trying to understand what you mean. Your interpretation is that .ml is pro-China and pro-Russia. And, as you can see, my account is .ml. I’m not sure I would identify as pro-China or pro-Russia. What does it mean to you to be pro-China and pro-Russia?
I think most people agree with OP that it’s not a 100% thing. Some people just signed up long ago, or picked a big instance.
I would assume they’re speaking literally.
To be fair, I did sign up a long time ago. However, I do have reasons to stay in
.ml. Here’s a response I posted elsewhere: https://lemmy.ml/post/40683138/22907808To understand what you mean, is that seal winking? If so, are you saying that maybe I’m not being forthcoming or honest? I hope that you and I and everyone here can agree that we’re trying to understand what we’re all saying and where we all stand. I’m not being sarcastic or trying to hide anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
Ah. Thanks for the explanation.
Well, if I look at my posts and ask myself whether I’m sealioning, I do see that I ask many questions to others. However, I also see that I talk about my stances and my beliefs. That is, as far as I can tell, not sealioning. Sealioning seems to require work from others while not doing the work of communicating.
Here’s a post in which I lay out some of my beliefs and stances regarding
.ml: https://lemmy.ml/comment/23293518Of course, I could be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me.
Explaining your stance doesn’t negate sealioning.
Gotcha. So you’re saying that explaining my stance is compatible with sealioning.
Here’s the thing. I would love to have civil, honest, constructive conversations. Seeing that this can be perceived as malicious is very frustrating to me. I could be accused of sealioning right now. It seems like a trap: damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
What am I supposed to do if I want to have a civil, honest, and constructive conversations?
I don’t doubt there are people who sealion. I just don’t see myself as having a malicious intent. I’m being open about my stances and I want to see what people’s stances are. But, again, damned if I do and damned if I don’t.
I suppose there’s nothing left for me to do other than tell you that, if you believe I’m acting in good faith, I’d love to talk to you. However, if you don’t think I’m acting in good faith, then there’s nothing we can do to move forward.
Regardless of what you think and what you choose, I genuinely hope you have a good one. In the grand scheme of things, I hope we can all live good lives.
.ml admins are pro russia and china. Are you an Admin controlling the flow of content
Thanks for the straightforward response.
It sounds as if it’s clear that .ml admins are pro-Russia and pro-China. I understand you’re also asking if I’m making content-flow choices.
I think it’s worthwhile to interrogate where I stand in relation to
.mland my identity.The way I see it,
.mldoes have posts that mourn aspects of countries like the USA and posts that recognize achievements of China. I’m not sure I’ve seen posts praising Russia, like at all, ever (if anything, I’ve seen posts critical of how Russia is a hyper-militaristic society).I take this to mean that
.mlis not indoctrinated in the way that many of my friends are. Some of my friends think that capitalism is perfectly ethical, and they sweep under the rug awful things about capitalism. They sweep under the rug how capitalism creates systemic inequality, how capitalism optimizes for accumulation instead of human flourishing, how capitalism is short-sighted in its investment strategies, how capitalism cannot create infinite growth in a contained system like planet Earth. I see these kinds of analyses in.ml. And I do not see them as much in other places.I want to make it clear that I’m not saying those analyses don’t exist elsewhere. However, I see
.mlengaging with them much more. I could be wrong, and I’d be very interested if you can link to other communities that engage with things like, for example, classical economics instead of neoclassical or post-Keynesian economics. Anyway…This might lead you to believe that I have a specific political project in mind that I’m supporting. And yeah, I believe in humanism, in human development, and in empathy-based ethics. However, I do not believe in static visions of the future. I do not think that there’s a Single Best Way Of Solving World Problems. I believe the world is a complex system and we need multiple simultaneous experiments at all levels to get more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
And what is it that I want? I want more acceptance of diversity and less hatred. I want more people working in good working conditions and less shitty workplaces. I want more equality of opportunities and less hoarding of privilege by the wealthy. I want more people out of poverty and less people stuck in the cycle of poverty. I want more investments that care about the long-term benefit of everyone and less investments that care about the short-term benefit of elites. I want more people who can choose what to do with their lives and less people stuck with what they’ve got in front of them.
So am I anti-USA and pro-China?
What I’m trying to say is that we have to look at reality with openness. I believe we should not stick to a simplistic story. I believe simplistic stories blind us to complexity and nuance. I believe we should not stick to easy stories such as “pro-USA” or “pro-China”. I believe we need to be able to break complex systems down and find what we want more of and what we want less of. I believe we then need to be able to accept that in complex systems we cannot know the end-state. I believe, instead, we need to try things out at multiple levels and see if we’re getting more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
So yeah, I see myself as someone who sees in
.mlthe kinds of analyses that I don’t see elsewhere. Of course, I’m open to alternatives and am curious about where you stand and what you believe..ml stands for marxist-lenninist. One of lemmy devs literally posts his pro communist essays to github https://github.com/dessalines/essays
It’s a pile of garbage and he seems to genuinely believe in it
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/capitalism_doesnt_work.md
This is one of them, it’s a list of fun facts about USA, and current state of capitalism.
Like UN study showing that 3% of USA military budget would end hunger world wide.
I honestly don’t know how to help you. Take care of yourself, because you sound unwell
deleted by creator
Lemmy.ml is the instance maintained by the creators of lemmy is believe. The have political leanings not shared by the majority of the fediverse. Far left by many estimates.
If you see something to left to believe, probably comes from there.
tankies are authright in left clothing
their takes generally have little to do with ideology however and more to do with loyalty to the state
Yeah, so far left that the far right is intrigued.
Horseshoe theory in action
i pointed it out in one of community still harboring them, that is not part of that instance, what a surprise instant downvote, and comment removed (especially criticizing CHINas lack of innovaiton or population problems) and im asian myself. funny thing on a post on reddit recently about "voters, left and right base) someone mentioned how tankies are pretty much non-voters themselves, they just like to complain but they dont vote for thier preferred members thats why there is no left wing in america. i call these people inactivist.
Authright is when universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, guaranteed employment, housing and retirement pensions, and liberating Europe from Fascism and saving tens of millions from Nazi extermination.
found the bootlicker!
Guaranteed housing is bootlicking!
guaranteed housing! no matter how many ukrainians need to be displaced!
What on Earth are you talking about? How are the 1955-1990 policies of guaranteed housing in any way related to Ukraine or displacement of anyone?
I see you’re very concerned with the well-being of the Ukrainian people though, which is commendable. You surely criticize the dissolution of the USSR then, which led to Ukraine becoming the poorest country in Europe, the premature deaths of millions of Ukrainians from unemployment, lack of healthcare, drug abuse, malnutrition, suicide and mental health crises in the period between 1990 and 2022, in which Ukraine lost more than 10 million of its people? (A bit less than 20% of the total population).
i really do not care for sea lions LOL
especially not sea lions who “liberate europe from fascism” by *checks notes* allying with hitler and handing western poland to nazi germany on a silver platter.
i criticize the enemy to ukraine’s east that has sought to destabilize it for years leading up to an unprovoked war of aggression and annexation
lemme.ml is a politically “left” tankie instance, the opposite of a conservative one. and you can surmise any criticism against that form of thinking will get you astroturfed or banned.
hexbear, lemmygrad instance are the same.